Curse

Miral · Jul 27, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

I'm guessing that your friend was horribly new to the game and had a friend give him all the money or the zodiac? if so, then no real loss to him since he put no effort into getting the goods... and if not, then how the hell did he not know about a. shadowstepping, and b. showing stats in the trade window? the world may never know...

Iuris · Jul 27, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

It's as much within the mechanism of the game, as "bluffing" is within that of Poker.

No, it isn't. We're playing guild wars, not poker. If you go play poker, you know what to expect if you play. And even then, you don't expect a player to suddenly grab the bets in the pot and run for it.

Guild wars is not intended to be played that way. SOME games may be and behavior of this type may be encouraged there. Here, no.

zwei2stein · Jul 27, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter Lady

Nobody deserves to be scammed with whatever methods used.

in matter of fact people who:

* Want to dupe items (and are stupid enough to bevileve that someone who knows how to dupe will teach them or help them)
* Want hack or exploit (and trust person offering them this stuff)
* Want to scam someone (and get outsmarted)

Deserve to be on recieving end on scam, period.

OP is not one of them thou, it unfortunate that something like that happened to him, but he should be gratefull for such lesson (he should to fall for that seccond time) and should enjoy fact that he can report and possibly get ban issued for some scum.

hallomik · Jul 27, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49

The count so far:

Pro Scammer / Anti Victim :19 (44%)

Pro Victim / Anti Scammer :15 (35%)

Post didn't take side / Neutral :9 (21%)

Darkobra · Jul 27, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

It's as much within the mechanism of the game, as "bluffing" is within that of Poker.

A lawyer can see everything right and wrong.

A lawyer can also read a legal contract. Must be the difference between you and a lawyer.

Miral · Jul 27, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

A lawyer can also read a legal contract. Must be the difference between you and a lawyer.

like the contracts saying that everything in-game is owned by arenanet, hence making the whole item scamming thing slightly irrelevant? hehe

Bazompora · Jul 28, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

The game mechanics are not the law of the game solely. Case in point: Exploits/Bots - these things work |within| the mechanics and both are not allowed by Anet, who is ultimately the law of their own private game. Scams also fall in that category.

Exploits: the fault lies with the maker, who made them part of the mechanism.
Bots: they use externally created programs which are not part of the mechanism, so it is just plain cheating. Using bots can be compared to slipping an ace out of your sleeves in a game of cards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

If you go play poker, you know what to expect if you play.

If you trade in Guild Wars, you know you should expect the possibility of being scammed.

arcanemacabre · Jul 28, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

Exploits: the fault lies with the maker, who made them part of the mechanism.

Now you're starting to understand! The game is made by humans. Humans are imperfect. The game mechanics are therefore imperfect and can err. Therefore, in order to maintain any amount of fairness, rules must be made, maintained, and changed if needed to suit where the mechanics fail. This includes Exploits and Scams that people use for personal gain while abusing the imperfect mechanics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

Bots: they use externally created programs which are not part of the mechanism, so it is just plain cheating.

The bots are very much part of "the mechanism", how else would they work? Just because someone uses a third party program, doesn't mean that third party program is performing any operations that are against the law of the mechanics. The program is simply replacing the player. It's no more cheating than scams or exploits, but agreed they are all forms of cheating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

Using bots can be compared to slipping an ace out of your sleeves in a game of cards.

Slipping an ace out of your sleeves fall well within the realm of what is possible - ie. mechanics of the card game. That's why card games have rules, so that the cheater is recognized as doing something wrong and can be disqualified. Just like someone scamming can be banned, and someone selling shoddy and falsely advertised computers can be sued, and someone murdering another can be arrested, tried, and convicted. The laws are there for a reason. Just because you can do something does not mean it is allowed.

Yichi · Jul 28, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

The only reason I went out and dropped an ID kit was because i knew what was comming from the old days of the Diablo2 drop trade hack, I just wanted to have a little fun with the guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Congratulations, you've just won Guild Wars.

YAY!!! So where do I pick up my cookie? Because I'm hungry atm...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destinyy

Just one thing, recall is a maintained enchantment... surely alarm bells ring when the dude puts recall on you then runs away??? As far as I know, you can tell when recall has been put on you...

Not all are shown. Recall is now changed to the caster maintaining it on themselves, and the guy I was with used Shadow Meld which teleports you on cast.

Bazompora · Jul 29, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

The program is simply replacing the player.

Thereby creating an NPC in a PC slot, which is cheating towards the mechanism that reserved that slot for a PC.
Exploiting and scamming are nowhere near this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Slipping an ace out of your sleeves fall well within the realm of what is possible - ie. mechanics of the card game.

No, it doesn't, for part of the mechanism is being replaced (card deck no longer correct), thereby breaking the original mechanism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Just because you can do something does not mean it is allowed.

If you can do it within the mechanics of a game, it's part of the game.

Kushiels_Scion · Jul 29, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Your friend was just completely stupid to do that period. They deserved to have it taken for dropping it on the ground like that.

arcanemacabre · Jul 29, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

Thereby creating an NPC in a PC slot, which is cheating towards the mechanism that reserved that slot for a PC.
Exploiting and scamming are nowhere near this.

Umm, there is no creation of an NPC. It's an external program that acts as a person. The character controlled is still a PC (Player Character). On Anet's servers, the PC is still a PC, and is still doing all the things a PC does, and all within the mechanics of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

No, it doesn't, for part of the mechanism is being replaced (card deck no longer correct), thereby breaking the original mechanism.

If you can do it within the mechanics of a game, it's part of the game.

I love how you avoid the real points, and continue to play on semantics. Do address the real life scenarios I provided. It is very possible to kill someone, steal something from someone, etc. The laws are in place to punish those who do. It's possible to cheat in a card game, obviously. The rules are in place to punish those who do. It's possible to scam in Guild Wars. The EULA is in place to punish those who do.

Think about it this way: What would be the point to the EULA if everything they would not want others to be able to do could be simply avoided by making code that does not allow them to do it? If the programming is the law of the land, that would be the case, and there would be no need for rules at all. Of course, in a world where no one could be murdered, there would be no need for a law forbidding it.

If you cannot understand by now, then you may never, and I've wasted my time. Either way, anything beyond this is a waste of my time, so I will not continue further.

Sentience · Jul 29, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Lol what an idiot your friend is.

Jiao Yang · Jul 29, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

I've seen this tried before.. infact it's been tried on me a few times.

Now I can understand why maybe someone would drop the item if the other player was far enough away, and no skills had been used by them. The scammer would then use the more sensible option of Return to teleport.
However, I really can't see how it's not extremely obvious what they're going to do when the other player has just used Recall. How he fell for it I really don't know..

I've never actually seen people try to use Recall before.. but yes, this scam is definately popular with the tricksters at the moment. You should never drop your weapon for any reason anyway.

Hole Sale Traps · Jul 29, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Someone Tried this on my like a month, ago I was wise and said to bad when he clamed that he could not see the skin in the trade window or when I equipped it so I left to keep spaming WTS in Lions ^^

erfweiss · Jul 29, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

I was the victim of something like this years ago on Diablo II. I was new to online gaming and was too trusting. I've gotten to the point of trusting vritually no one, because they always seen to have an alterior motive. Call it extremism, but I haven't been burned since.

Konrow · Jul 29, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Honestly i have to agree with the majority here. Even if he fell for the "texture mods" crap he should still be smart enough to realize that the trade window shows all stats and color. The dropping scam is not very common but it is very old and so people should be well aware of what can happen.

lacasner · Jul 29, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Yea...he's a very good pvp player but didnt know all bout possible scams and such..So you can't really call someone stupid I guess for never knowing about something.

dopple · Jul 29, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

funny, on the first page of this thread, people are lambasting the victim instead of the scammer... I wont read the rest.

RachaelH · Jul 29, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

I want you to drop all of your gold on the floor so I can see it is real and not just salvage kits dyed silver!

Anyone had someone keep shouting 'scammer!' at you when you decided not to buy something off them? That is annoying! (or when you try to haggle before even putting in the offer in the trade :P)